Comments on: Where do the children ride?

By: Two Wheel Travel

Two Wheel Travel — Mon, 29 Oct 2012 09:37:23 +0000

Hi Dave,
Thanks again for taking the time…
I would love to find out more about any statistics you could dig up on the benefits of cycle-tourism in rural economies. No worries about not being able to recall your earlier points… I know how it is…
Our experience with cycling in Warsaw is perhaps a little skewed in that we have lived in places where it is more accepted as a year round activity. Of course weather here puts the brakes on for 4-5 month for all put the hardiest (craziest??) cyclists. I think in some respects the hipster cycle culture has transcended global boundaries, even to Warsaw. There are loads of stylishly hip twenty-somethings zipping around and some ‘regular’ folks going about to and from work in the sunny months. There is almost 0 cargo/delivery by bike and very few children on bikes. The streets are a battleground where there isn’t cycle infrastructure (which are most streets) and the infrastructure that exists is isolated and not contiguous or integrated at all. Certainly the ‘poor & car-less’ use bikes as transit, but not all cyclists would be classed as such. Remarkably, the Critical Mass events (which I never attended before moving here, b/c they always seemed too political in the US) yield several thousand participants in the warmer months! quite impressive really…

If you would like to continue this discussion ‘offline’ or out of the comments section feel free to email me
tyler [at] two wheel travel blog [dot] com

thanks again,
~Tyler

By: Dave Horton

Dave Horton — Fri, 26 Oct 2012 07:42:50 +0000

Hi Tyler

No need to apologise! I know what it’s like And thanks SO much for setting out your thoughts.

There’s been quite a bit of work done in the UK, and I’m sure elsewhere, about the benefits of cycle-tourism to (often struggling) rural economies. I’m afraid I don’t have specific details off the top of my head, but if you want me to search out a few references I’d be more than happy to. I think the basic point is the same as your hunch – that cycle-touring is really good for business: cycle-tourists are dependent on rather than (as car-based tourists might well be) independent of local businesses. It strikes me that, so long as you’re willing to discount the costs of their getting there (which I admit is a big ‘if’, especially when it comes to air travel), cycle-tourism is a pretty sustainable (and I’d be tempted to add ‘soulful’, as a way of trying to get to the ‘positive social and cultural impacts’ to which you allude) practice.

I’m terribly sorry, but I can’t now get back to where my head was, when I responded to your previous comment! I sometimes get a sense of an analysis emerging, but I don’t develop it enough; and then, alas, it’s gone! (This is I think one of the weaknesses – for someone who enjoys gradually developing certain lines of inquiry – of blogging, certainly if it becomes *instead of* more disciplined, considered, sustained thinking and writing.) But I’ll be sure to let you know if I recall what on earth I was thinking!

I’m very interested in your experiences of cycling in Warsaw. Is there much cycling in the city, and – if so – of (approximately) what type? (At the crudest level, I guess I’m particularly interested if cities such as Warsaw are showing any signs of the ‘hipster’ cycling of cities such as Portland, or whether people riding bikes are more easily seen as the poor and car-less? But please don’t feel overly pressured to reply; as, when and if the mood takes you …

Lovely to ‘make contact’

Best wishes
Dave

By: Two Wheel Travel

Two Wheel Travel — Wed, 24 Oct 2012 08:29:07 +0000

Hi dave,
Sorry it has taken me so long to reply… You make some great points.
I’m an American living in Eastern Europe. I’ve lived in the Netherlands before and my home in the US is Portland, OR. I’ve witnessed the good( NL ), less good but pretending to be great as you’ve referred to as “tokenistic” (Portland) and the Ugly ( Warsaw, my current home ). It’s easy to see where the Dutch are excelling. Well thought, interconnected infrastructure and social acceptance. Easy to use once it’s there… In Oregon we have the advantage of thousand of willing participants, so the modest infrastructure is sometimes acceptable, although not sufficient, for the throngs of cycling families wishing to either commute to school or work and/or pedal to the nearby countryside for an afternoon or weekend. Not exactly the numbers seen in NL, but by American standards we’re leading the pace. Although there is much room for improvement. Where I think the interesting point lies, as you have suggested above, is in places that have little to almost no cycling culture or infrastructure. Like Warsaw, for example. Here we have a few disconnected suburban cycle tracks and once you’re in the outer countryside, there are some confusing marked cycle routes on rural roads. That’s it…
After our tour through Czech Republic, which has wonderfully marked routes throughout the entire country, btw; we ( my partner Carolyn and I) have been talking lately about the advantages to small and rural communities of promoting Cycle tourism in these outer reaches… What amount of commerce is injected here that would otherwise be “going down the road” when travelling by car? What positive social and cultural impacts result by travelling by bike, especially when done as a family or group? How could small communities independently promote Cycle tourism, even if surrounding urban centers, can’t or won’t develop adequate infrastructure…?

Not to discount your points about interconnecting the central urban core to the countryside. this is a valuable part of the equation for promoting effective Cycle Tourism/Travel too. As you’ve alluded to a ‘potentially interesting analysis’ in this area, I’m curious what your take is on these impacts?

As you can see, I’m a bit long winded too when it comes to this stuff.

Cheers,

~Tyler

By: ann furtado

ann furtado — Sun, 30 Sep 2012 20:08:49 +0000

Hi Dave, I do of course agree with you re needing to be proactive and I know we are lucky to live in a city with a high level of cycling and reasonable provision.
Interesting what you say about cycle training, I went and did the cycle instructor training and did a bit in the schools and a bit of adult training but it’s very hard to get people to take cycle training seriously. I think I am a miles better cyclist for having done the training and I am horrified at what I see cyclists doing. I don’t mean the anti-social bit of riding through red lights etc but simple stuff like looking over their shoulder before pulling out, signalling clearly, not riding out of side roads without looking, not going down the inside of buses and lorries.
I thought your piece where you talked about in and out groups and the perception of cyclists as an out group was one of the most interesting pieces I had read around the subject of hostility against cyclists in the UK. I can’t help thinking that the anti-social behaviour bit combined with simply not behaving assertively and correctly on the road must add to the perception that cyclists are anarchists and don’t know what they are doing.
I wrote a dissertation once for a masters course on cycling in the 19th century and the conflict between stage coach/wagon/cab drivers and early cyclists. For a while there was war on the roads between the two and many of the criticisms of cyclists were the same as now, eg. cyclists illegally riding on footpaths!
We are a small and crowded nation and I personally blame Maggie Thatcher and her ilk for adding to an already entrenched conservatism and thus individualism as opposed to our more communally minded European mainland neighbours. I always think the French official anti-terrorist warning sign says it all – they have three figures forming a closed circle saying look after each other, whereas we have ‘look out for yourself and don’t trust anyone’!
Sorry to rattle on anyway, a bit away now from children and cycling but thanks for so much stimulating stuff.

By: Dave Horton

Dave Horton — Fri, 28 Sep 2012 10:59:23 +0000

Thanks Ann, for your compliments on my blog, and for sharing your own experiences. They are great to hear, and very inspiring. Well done on (so far) passing cycling on to the next generation so successfully.

Unfortunately we have got a bit of a gap I think, haven’t we (though probably a lot less so in Oxford than somewhere such as Lancaster), where the parents of many of today’s children have only very limited – if any – experience and knowledge of cycling; so it’s being left to ‘outside experts’ (i.e. Bikeability instructors, Sustrans Bike It officers) to enthuse and encourage kids to cycle (and then enthuse/encourage their parents, rather than vice versa!)?

More broadly though, I do think that the increased existence of cycle training for children (and adults) is an indication that – as a culture/society – we are now taking cycling more seriously again. (I am of an age that seems to have fallen between periods of ‘taking cycling seriously’ – a bit too young to have been taught ‘cycling proficiency’, but too old to have benefited from more recent cycle training initiatives.)

It’s great to hear your optimism about cycling’s future – on the whole, I agree. But I also think we need to remain aware that bucketfuls of pro-cycling sentiment don’t translate into pro-cycling action, unless we agitate for and demand it. So we have to make sure that we strike whilst the iron is hot!!

Very best wishes
Dave

By: ann furtado

ann furtado — Thu, 27 Sep 2012 20:41:47 +0000

Great article and great blog, really enjoyed the cycling and safety article too. We live in Oxford and I think are lucky to be somewhere with a tradition of cycling and a reasonable infrastructure as a result of a cycling friendly local authority, especially in the past. We also have a Sustrans regional office in Oxford and they do a great job of working with local authorities to improve local infrastructure and also directly with schools through initiatives such as Bike It officers.
Our three daughters are all keen cyclists partly as a result of us cycling with them but also because their secondary school, Cherwell School, has always had a policy of encouraging children to cycle and has one of the highest rates of cycling by pupils in the country. It really helps that there are good, dedicated cycle lanes and paths more or less throughout the school catchment. But the school has always had a committee dedicated to transport policy with a good number of cyclists ‘on board’.
As a result, there have been initiatives like working with a local cycle workshop to encourage the less abled kids to learn cycle mechanics, the school has worked with the local authority and private providers to offer cycle training and cycle maintenance and they now offer cycle polo I think. It must help that Oxford has a strong cyclist lobbying group, Cyclox, and also a number of thriving local CTC groups.
Once our daughters reached teenage, they realised the freedom a bike gave and they absolutely refused to be taken anywhere by car – even on a night when the rain is bucketing down and they are off to a party, they will seriously argue and demand to be allowed to cycle. The oldest, now 27, is into mountain biking in a big way. I do remember having to swallow my horror when she wanted to cycle in a frilly, long dress and it took a while before she realised why trousers might be saner. Never argue too hard I discovered.
One of the others, now 20, is in the US on an exchange at the moment through her university and she tells us that there, all students must do two internships each term and so she is working in a bike shop which collects and recycles bikes and loving it. We are looking forward to her return and to handing over our maintenance needs! Just saying that though reminds me that one of the things about being a cycling parent is the need to know how to buy your kid a decent bike and secondly, be prepared to keep an eye on the state of the bike and to do the regular maintenance necessary to keep it safe and rideable.
I’ve never seen so many people or kids cycling and I am very optimistic for the future on this score though the level of hostility on our roads from drivers towards cyclists can be horrifying. But it does feel like we are now on the crest of a wave and with enough interested and encouraging adults and with organisations like Sustrans and the CTC and, even, government backing, I am keeping my fingers crossed!

By: Dave Horton

Dave Horton — Sat, 22 Sep 2012 10:03:23 +0000

Cheers Dave, lovely film. I especially like the green bicycle light and ‘go London’ at the end – very poignant. And of course, I agree with you – things are happening. Your footage of the afternoon commute, especially, is impressive – the number of cyclists is something I’d never have imagined, when I rode regularly in London some twenty years ago now. And of course, the number of people now riding just has to produce other effects which would have previously been unthinkable. And I know you’re not going to stop doing your fantastic work, but we’ve got to keep pushing, take advantage of the momentum, haven’t we? You know and I know that those motorised vehicles (on the A6?) are still travelling too fast, and they still have too much ‘right to the road’. But London is getting there. (And I’m just back from Bristol, which also seems to be ‘getting there’.) I would love to take you up on your offer of riding London’s streets again. Now I’m ‘freelance’ (i.e. much more likely to do stuff if I can make it pay , I need to figure out a way in which I could make it work financially, if only to cover costs of train fare etc. Any ideas of places to which we could pitch a jointly authored article, and how we might frame it? (I’ll put my thinking cap on and get back to you if I come up with anything!) It would though of course be lovely to see you, to swap stories and ride together.
Cheers for now
Dave, x

By: david dansky

david dansky — Fri, 21 Sep 2012 23:42:26 +0000

Fancy another tour of London one year on? You’ll notice the difference Dave. Made this little film on London’s A-roads.
no young people here though. Many are riding to school in Hackney

By: disgruntled

disgruntled — Sun, 16 Sep 2012 18:38:34 +0000

One of the really striking things about our trip to the NL last year was the number of teenage couples you saw on bikes (or off their bikes … sometime you’d spot a pair of bikes abandoned by the path, and teenage couple canoodling under some handy bridge or sheltered spot not too far away). Where cycling is normal, of course teens would want to go out together on their bikes, no need to ask Mum and Dad to ferry you with all the awkward questions that entails!

I realise this may not be entirely what the father of daughters wants to hear, of course…

By: Dave Horton

Dave Horton — Tue, 11 Sep 2012 14:15:02 +0000

Thanks very much Jonathan, for those brilliant descriptions and insights from your own experiences. You’re a few years further on than we are, with your two children, and it’s fascinating (also a bit sobering, but also quite inspiring – because cycling still clearly matters …) to hear what we might have in store. There’s a lot to unpick in what you say, for sure, but I guess the big thing – isn’t it – is that your daughters dwell in a pro-cycling domestic ‘cocoon’ which is inserted within a much bigger culture which – and especially with adolescent girls, perhaps – is indifferent (or even a bit hostile) to cycling? I think this adolescent ‘anti-cycling’ culture can only begin to be broken down by obviously and visibly elevating cycling’s place in society, through making it much easier and more convenient to cycle whilst simultaneously making it much harder and less convenient (and also a bit embarrassing?) to be driven (by parents). Once that starts to happen, I can imagine children who cycle will gradually start to be ‘re-configured’ (sorry, that sounds horrible – what I mean is ‘seen differently’ in everyday discourses) away from ‘eccentric’/'odd’/'distinctive’ towards ‘pioneering’/'cool’/'distinctive’.

Hey, wherever we go, your always welcome! But no fear, I’m here for good – north Lancashire is fantastic cycling country and my life’s work is to help as many people as possible appreciate that! (Whilst also continuing to get out and enjoy it myself, of course!)

Catch you soon, and thanks loads for reading AND commenting (and so eloquently).
Dave, x